Four Favored
School board votes to stick with four county high schoolsBy STEPHANIE HAMM shamm@timesobserver.com
The Warren County School District's board of directors on Monday chose to keep four high schools open rather than consolidating to half that number.
In a 6-3 vote, the board approved a motion to maintain four high schools based on the recommendation of a steering committee comprised of teachers, administrators and parents.
The motion, offered by board member Tom Knapp, further directed the administration "to recommend at the next board meeting a schedule for deciding the priority, extent and funding of construction projects, including a schedule for deciding a resolution of the Warren elementary schools configuration."
Newly-elected Board President Arthur Stewart said he looked at the minimal cost difference between the option of two high schools and the current four when making his decision.
"The results of the most recent DeJong study showed that consolidating did not yield important tax savings," said Stewart.
"We want to move in a direction that's politically tenable," he added.
Knapp said, "You would come away a lot cheaper than what we would do with two high schools."
Kim Angove, who had been nominated for another term as board president in the reorganizational portion of the meeting, opposed the motion, looking instead at holding a referendum and collecting more public input.
"The mass of people do need to see it," explained Angove.
New board member Paul Yourchisin, who also opposed the motion, said, "You want to leave no stone unturned before that decision is made."
Angove continued by expressing her view on the educational perspective of consolidation, which should be the primary goal of a board member.
"After seeing the (DeJong) report, two (high schools) offers more educationally," she said.
Board member Donna Zariczny, who was elected board vice president, also opposed the motion.
In addition to Stewart and Knapp, voting to keep four high schools open were board members Jeff Lockett, John Grant, John Werner and MaryAnne Paris.
Under the four high school option, according to the Master Facilities Plan presented in October 2008, Eisenhower Middle/High School would be replaced with a new school on or near the same site, estimated to cost over $24 million. Russell Elementary, Warren Area Elementary Center, Youngsville Elementary/Middle School and Youngsville High School would require no action.
Allegheny Valley and Sheffield elementary schools would be combined into the Sheffield K-12 School site, requiring the new construction of an elementary school costing close to $7 million. South Street Early Learning Center would close, and students would attend a renovated Pleasant Elementary School, which would cost about $10 million. Warren Area High School would receive a moderate renovation estimated at $14 million, while Beaty-Warren Middle School and Sugar Grove Elementary School would both receive major renovations estimated at just over $27 million.
According to DeJong, the cost to implement that option would be about $85.6 million.
The first option for two high schools would have utilized Warren Area High School and Youngsville High School as the two district high schools. According to the data, Warren would hold 1,000 students and require a moderate renovation or addition, totaling an estimated $21.2 million. Youngsville, which would hold 700 students, would also require an addition or renovation, at an estimated cost of $14.8 million. The total to implement that option would have cost an estimated $82 million.
The second option for two high schools would have utilized Warren and a new high school. According to DeJong, the construction of a new school, housing 700 students, would cost about $35 million. The cost of Warren would stay the same as in the first option. The total to implement that option would have cost approximately $102.9 million.
Under both of the two high school options, renovations at other schools in the district were included.
The decision to vote on high school consolidation was not on Monday's meeting agenda.
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tealdahlia
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12-10-09 6:00 PM
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"Funny, weren't the 4Schools folks just screaming a week ago about not having had enough input?" Nope, we had our say at the community dialogue. I can honestly say I have never whined about not having enough input. I wrote letters to my school boards reps and did what I felt was right for this issue. Also: the new board members obviously had to do research and know what is involved with the school board before they ran, so don't pull the "they're new and so know nothing" crap. Again: they would have voted sooner or later no matter what, and so having a ton of people gawking while they voted wouldn't have changed their vote: they knew it would be made public who voted for what anyway.
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faulby
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12-10-09 5:25 PM
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We all know that every elected governing body does the kinds of things the school board did with their vote. Congress meets in secret then rushes bills through at every level. Tactics like this shouldn't come as a surprise to any of us. The 2 vs. 4 school issue is done for now and it's time to move on and find ways to make the best out of the situation we have ahead of us. We can lead, follow or sit on the sidelines and do nothing but complain. What example do we plan to set for the next generation?
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fivealive
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12-10-09 3:26 PM
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Funny, weren't the 4Schools folks just screaming a week ago about not having had enough input? Two of those board members have NOT had months to study the issue. Did they go back and read all the material the board has collected over those months? Did they have in-depth discussions with previous memebers to get themselves caught up? Were they really well-informed with accurate information? (One was admittedly running based on inaccurate info.) I don't think this was a "shady habit". The agendas are frequently published on the website ahead of time. I think this was a calculated, shady move. Question is, was it in keeping with board policies/procedures?
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tealdahlia
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12-10-09 1:43 PM
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The school board isn't required to put an item on the agenda before they vote on it. While I admit that it seems like a shady habit, letting the public know and attend wouldn't have changed the board's vote: each representative has had several months to make up their mind. The board already was elected by the voters and asked for the public opinion, and so felt they could take action.
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faulby
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12-10-09 11:51 AM
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The status quo of four high schools carries a pricetag of 85 million dollars. The two options for 2 high schools had pricetags of 83 and 103 million dollars so the school boards decision to keep four schools really is no more costly than it would have been to close two. Undoubtedly our taxes will increase yet (in theory) maintenance costs should go down once new schools or school upgrades are completed. Personally, I would have preferred and still would prefer to see the school board address the labor cost issue. With declining enrollment (400 less in 6yrs.)and a shrinking tax base the time when education will become unaffordable will soon be here. Like it or not, labor costs will come to the forefront and will have to be addrerssed.
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fivealive
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12-10-09 8:15 AM
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That's what I recalled about upkeep, too, Faulby. Begs the question how they plan to do upkeep on four buildings -- if money wasn't there before, how is it going to be there now that the tax base is smaller, there are more unfunded mandates from state/federal gov't, the overall cost of education has gone up, etc.? Sounds like the plan is to build or renovate buildings and let them fall into disrepair again.
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faulby
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12-10-09 7:59 AM
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of that degree. What businesses are looking for are individuals who are "right thinking", who can manage multiple tasks, who can problem solve on their own, and who don't have have their hands held. Finally they want people who can achieve results and not just talk. Let's see if this school board can now get results and not just talk.
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faulby
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12-10-09 7:56 AM
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Fromm what I can recall, buildings were not maintained because there was not enough money to do so in each years budget. Remember 67% of the budget is fixed costs such as wage and benefits. The 33% balance covers everything else like fuel, supplies, general maintenance etc. As for the vote, I agree it should have been announced beforehand so more of the public could have attended, but the outcome vote would have been the same. I pretty much knew of at least 4 firm votes to keep 4 schools and 3 firm votes to reduce to 2. I just wasn't sure of the final 2 and frankly I was surprised by 1 of the two who voted to keep four. It's interesting that we've talked about the educational values yet just yesterday I read a lengthy article regarding college graduates who've gotten their degree. According to the article, most businesses don't value that degree like they once did due to the fact that everyone gets one now. With 70% of all students going on to college it's watered down the value
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fivealive
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12-10-09 7:08 AM
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Was that St Bona vote on the agenda? There's a big difference between not informing the public about a major vote and someone voting on an issue that may/may not have been improper. (I don't think it was at all, BTW.) I am guessing that there are rules governing whether a vote such as this one can be taken without proper public notice. Putting a major vote on an agenda prior is Basic Public Governance 101.
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fivealive
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12-10-09 7:03 AM
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I'm not trying to dictate anything. Just offering a different opinion based on my experience in education and seeing what other districts in the country do. I don't understand why an outside (although I really don't consider myself a Warren County outsider) opinion is so threatening. In any decision-making process, objective outside input is always helpful. I wish I could live in Warren County, but as I already said there are no jobs there for my husband and the schools aren't the best for my kids. There are lots of people who have left the area yet wish they were able to come back. We aren't trying to dictate, just trying to help make that return possible and maybe help to improve the area.
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primrose
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12-10-09 5:59 AM
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I love how those who don't even live here, seem to think they have a right to dictate how the decisions should be made for the parents who DO have children here.
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notalocal
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12-10-09 4:23 AM
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Fivealive you worry about this, but it was okay for a board member vote in St. Bona's and then recieve a job from same. I know for a fact there people sitting in prison over in Bradford for the same type of ethics violation. But that right it's okay in small towns because of the small pool to pick from.
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fivealive
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12-09-09 9:24 PM
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Why wasn't upkeep done in the past, does anyone know?
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fivealive
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12-09-09 9:13 PM
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Still wondering how they managed to vote on something this important without it being on the agenda. The public was not told about the vote being taken. Aren't there bylaws and rules governing publishing agendas for the public?
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notalocal
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12-09-09 2:01 PM
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agreed, lets hope past practice doesn't continue.
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tealdahlia
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12-09-09 1:53 PM
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If the school district understood how much money upkeep would save them in the long run, renovations wouldn't take place as often. Every school in the district would be in MUCH better shape if they had done minor maintenance work more often.
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notalocal
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12-09-09 1:40 PM
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Fivealive, Angove didn't go and if you went to the 4schools meeting where Mrs. Angove spoke, you would find that what she said in the paper was little different then she told us. She always went back to saying region 3 was not the majority, it not worth fighting fights you can't win. What everyone else is not educated, last checked Lockett ran multi-million dollar business. Anyways if you are going to fix up old buildings, you will need to do it again ten years later. Thats why I hoped for two brand new schools.
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Publius
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12-09-09 11:45 AM
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Ironic, isn't it? All of those Ike and Sheffieldites who complain so bitterly about nasty old Warren have two Warren representatives to thank as much as their own for "saving" their schools.
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tealdahlia
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12-09-09 10:53 AM
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totheright, how do you think the Ike area felt about Angove? Or how the Sheffield area felt about their previous reps? Ike showed their dissatisfaction by calling Angove (for the reason that she was their rep who failed to do what they felt right), and Sheffield by electing Werner and Paris. "Actually, Primrose, the voters did speak" Yep, those of us who cared didn't just whine anonymously, we attended the community dialogue and expressed our opinion. The decision has been made, and now it’s time to make the best of it. If you were truly concerned, you would have attended the meeting or written your representative.
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fivealive
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12-09-09 9:09 AM
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I don't think Angove or Turfitt need to necessarily go. Definitely don't think they are uppity. I think they were looking out for the education and future of the kids. I guess I look at democracy and representation a bit differently. I elect reps based on their experience, knowledge and ability to make wise, educated decisions. No rep will agree with me on every issue every time. If my rep is truly engaged in the issues, knows their stuff and makes the best vote possible (not based on politics alone, Mr. Stewart) then they have done their job. Mrs. Angove did just that. I don't agree with her on some of the other issues re the schools but I would re-elect her based on her experience, knowledge and willingness to really study the issues. That's not uppity. That's good representation.
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hammer
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12-09-09 9:08 AM
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I didn't realize this was the Fauiby, Fivealive chat.Maybe you should exchange phone numbers.
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fivealive
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12-09-09 6:53 AM
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No child would have been a number in a consolidated school in WCSD. The schools would still have been small, providing the hand-holding and attention folks want. I am not sure there is such a thing as "too high a standards". If you continue to aim low and not improve, that's exactly what you will get. I happen to think the district had a prime opportunity to aim higher, set higher standards and provide better opportunities. Apparently "the people" weren't interested and the board was more interested in money and politically standing. Again, aim low and you get it. I didn't realize my parenting was part of this discussion. If you are criticizing me for providing my kids the best opportunities, then I'm guilty as charged. But please don't presume to know my relshp with my children and how I parent. You don't even know me.
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MLSM09
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12-09-09 6:01 AM
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I think its safe to say that Fivealive thinks his or her crap dont stink, and their childs smells like roses. Your childs probably going to mess up becasue of your too high of standards and flip burgers forever becasue a good college wont take them. If you teach your children that its a great thing to get high grades,to push them selves, and reward them for doing so, they will and they do go far.and THEY set the high standards for them selves bacuse they learn that its a great thing and they want to push them selves and not be pushed to accomplish that. But if you walk around with those rose colored glasses you seem to always have on, your going to be too blind to see what your child is doing when your not looking. Small schools are a great thing, more one on one with the teachers. why should the children have to be a number in a school instead of a real person?
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Clark
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12-09-09 12:30 AM
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I did some checking. Chautauqua County NY is directly above Warren County with many school districts. Compare the stats below and explain to me why Warren can't keep 4 schools open. I am familiar with many of those districts and they have great schools, many of them smaller than Warren. I will brace myself for the abuse to follow. Chautauqua County population: 133,789 School districts: 18 Total Students:22,205 High schools: 18 Population / student ratio: 6.0 Population / # of high schools ratio: 7,432 Warren County population: 40,728 School district: 1 Total Students: 5,552 High schools: 4 Population / student ratio: 7.3 Population / # of high schools ratio: 10,182
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faulby
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12-08-09 10:32 PM
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Fivealive, perhaps your husband can create his own business right here in Warren county. Who say's that he has to work for someone else. If you truly feel our schools are lacking the educational excellence you seek, then you really should leave for the betterment of your children. I certainly would not want to see that because (although I don't know you outside this forum), I do appreciate reading your points of view. I, like your husband, have had job opportunities offered to me, yet I've turned them all down because for better or for worse, I like it here. I have a daughter in school and have watched three sons graduate from here. I too graduated from here as did my wife. Perhaps when my daughter is no longer in school, I may leave... but only because i really don't like the winters:)
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