Four schools
Dear Editor:
Tuesday night I had the opportunity to attend the community dialogue session held by the Warren County School District at the Warren High School. I was very pleased to see so many people in attendance. This is obviously an area of concern for all residents of our school district. One thing that I found very interesting and disturbing was the very last comment that came from a school board member. She thanked us all for coming and then said "We will keep you apprised of the situation and let you know what our decision is."
Why does the school board get to make decisions that so closely affect the rest of us? The school board members were elected by voters in their region who believed that if elected, those members would represent them and their voice. The school board members need to remember this and consider the voters' views and beliefs when making this huge life and community-changing decision. If our school board members were paying any attention at all Tuesday evening, they would have seen and heard an almost unanimous desire to keep all four of our schools open.
I have a degree in business administration and accounting, so I understand the economics of the situation. We are supposed to believe that we will save thousands of dollars a year if we consolidate. I truly believe that when it's all said and done the savings will be trivial. We still need to educate the same number of children and that all costs money no matter what building they are in. Part of the problem in our country is that too many decisions are based on the all mighty dollar and not on what is right, moral and for the good of the people. Let's not get lost in the glamour of the new schools and make a huge mistake for Warren County.
I grew up in New York State and graduated from Southwestern Central School. When there was a decision that needed to be made regarding the school district with tax implications, it was put on a ballot and put before the voters. Why can't we do that here? The voters are footing the bill - let us decide how to spend our money.
Kellie Johnson
Parent and taxpayer
Youngsville
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fivealive
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11-20-09 5:29 PM
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I can't say what would happen to those principals or the teachers who would become 'unnecessary' (for lack of a better term) under consolidation. My guess is the union would try to keep them around somehow or try to allow the reduction thru retirements/early retirement incentives. Personally, I think at a high school level classes should be larger than 10-15. For those going on to college, they need to get used to larger classes, interaction, debate and competition. The regular ed kids can also handle larger classes. Granted, you will always have small classes in some cases (German IV is never going to be standing-room-only!) but the core classes and many electives need to be bigger than 10-15. I can't believe the district is operating like that!
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faulby
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11-20-09 3:00 PM
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fivealive, now were getting somewhere. I like you believe that it's possible to reduce the number of principals by three or four and that saves $$. The key is are those three or four released altogether, or are they reassigned in another area. If it's the former, then we're still not getting anywhere. I graduated in 1981 and my average class size was 24 and I got an excellent education. I often wonder if class size is a means to employ more people or is it a necessity that can be proven to work via actual case study. As I said earlier, no scenario works unless we reduce costs proportionally with the projected population decrease. Wages and benefits are the largest cost.
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fivealive
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11-20-09 8:38 AM
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The city would go for one high school if the advantages were explained better than they were in this current debate. Maybe the district should hire Publius to do the feasibility study and a few of the rest of us as a PR group. Bet we could get it done! :)
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fivealive
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11-20-09 8:36 AM
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Faulby, those class numbers are avgs. Most schools my kids have been in/I've taught in avg about 20/elementary class and 20-25/high school core class. If WCSD would move closer to those numbers, you would see a reduction. Not sure how they will do the admin. Definitely don't need that many principals in two schools. A principal and two asst would be plenty for the larger HS, I would think. Smaller one could work with two. That's just my guess, though. I'm not sure folks will ever go for reducing the number of teachers, where possible. The fear of "big classes" and "big schools" is too great. Wish people would go see schools were classes of 20 are in use. Maybe they would get it.
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faulby
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11-19-09 11:56 PM
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fivealive, I did not say to cut classes of 5-15. What I said was that technology can provide classes of that size regardless of where students are located. Recall that in the 4 vs 2 newspaper article current class sizes were listed as ranging from 10-16 and with consolidation that number changes to 16-20. If the current average is 13 and the consolidated average is 18 that's 5 more students per classroom. With 5000 students divided by 13 per classroom you get 384 classrooms and with 5000 students divided by 18 per classroom you get 278 classrooms. That's a reduction of 106 classrooms. If future scenarios show fewer students in future years, at what point does staff reduction occur? Can you answer this one question for me. If we have 4 high schools with 2 principals at each high school (total of 8) and we close 2 of those schools, how many principals will we be required?
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mare1276
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11-19-09 10:13 PM
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If you are counting on the school holding the community together I think you might be living thru your children and I say get a life..... Let them have their space and a life too. Supervision is necessary but space is needed tool
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Publius
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11-19-09 9:55 PM
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I know one who would, Sami...me. You see, I don't buy into the contention that the only thing that holds a community together is a high school. I believe communities are stronger than that, at least mine is. Or, if I'm wrong all of us will go down together :-)
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samibigelow
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11-19-09 9:37 PM
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AMEN Publius, AMEN. Starbrick is perfect, how about the old Blair property? Or where Mahan Motors is or soon was? Perfect, but the city people won't go for it.
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Publius
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11-19-09 9:25 PM
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Look, here's how it would work: 1. Close Sheffield and A-V, combine in a K-8 at SMHS. 2. Close Beaty. Create a K-8 campus using WAEC and WAHS. 3. Close Ike. Slightly expand SG and Russell Elems to K-8 4. Close Career Center or use for LEC or blend into the K-8 campus if necessary. Convert YHS to new, expanded Career Center 5. Build one high school slightly larger than current WAHS in middle of county -- Starbrick would be fine.
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Publius
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11-19-09 9:02 PM
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Close the current Career Center, too. Another savings, or move the LEC (which is most heavily utilized by grades 5 through 8 anyway) into it.
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mare1276
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11-19-09 8:56 PM
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If the Vo Tech goes to Youngsville what happens to the current Vo Tech? Conversion for Beaty.... or to accomodate High Schools? The WCCBI should also have empty plants to house the Vo Tech but just not sure what is all being used.
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Publius
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11-19-09 8:44 PM
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ONE HIGH SCHOOL! ONE HIGH SCHOOL! Listen, can you hear the chant? It's a tiny voice in the wilderness...or maybe I'm hallucinating.
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Publius
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11-19-09 8:41 PM
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Faulby is, of course, correct that the largest expense in the district is personnel. It is axiomatic that reducing the number of facilities tilts toward reducing personnel, at least in theory.
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Publius
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11-19-09 8:38 PM
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mare: Under the Publius plan (sic.), YHS would be converted to a tech/career center, a really good one. The little ones are riding buses now, some as far as Clarendon.
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fivealive
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11-19-09 8:35 PM
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The Vo-Tech is one thing that was completely overlooked in the DeJong study. I really wish the district would take a closer look at the offerings there and make that a top-notch education. That would be a selling point for businesses coming in, looking for a supply of skilled employees. One high school with technology and expanded course offerings along with one top-notch VoTech would be a real asset for the kids and the community, as a whole. That would give the WCCBI, et al something to sell potential businesses on.
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mare1276
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11-19-09 8:26 PM
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Publis, the little ones have to travel too far... Nice try though. And do not forget the Vo-Tech, still used by all 4 high schools....
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fivealive
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11-19-09 8:15 PM
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Faulby, you say we need to cut staffing but you also say we shouldn't cut classes of 5-15. I don't understand -- those seem contradictory to me. Some of the staffing cannot be cut, as it is mandated by the state or federal govt. SPED has certain laws that must be followed w/ regard to services; NCLB is forcing schools to hire math/literacy coaches, etc to help meet AYP; certain classes are necessary for college-bound kids; class sizes cannot excede state regs; etc. As usual, not all of those mandates are funded and the locals pick up the tab. I do believe that staff will likely be cut more than the eleven cited by DeJong, especially as the enrollment continues to decline. You will also save on custodians, etc.
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Publius
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11-19-09 8:00 PM
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Faulby: I share your pain. Education is expensive. Doing it as efficiently as possible while maintaining quality is all you can hope for.
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Publius
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11-19-09 7:58 PM
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OK. I know I'm going to sound like I'm beating that old, dead horse, but you could move everybody from k-8 to the hill, close the SSELC, Beaty, Ike and take care of that K overflow problem with the one-HS option. Split the K-8 between WAEC and ex-WAHS. :-) Sorry, I guess some might label this OCD.
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faulby
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11-19-09 7:57 PM
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By the way, based on a quick rough calculation we currently spend about 13,500 dollars per student ech year multiplied by 12 (or 13) years of schooling any the pricetag is 162,000.00 to graduate each student. In order for that money to be recouped through taxes they'd have to pay about 3500 dollars per year from age 18 to age 65. At a 15% federal tax bracket it means an annual salary (before deductions) of 24,000.00 or a 12 dollar per hour job. If every job in Warren county paid at least 12 dollars per hour and every student who graduated from Warren County stayed we'd break even IF all that tax money went back to the school district. Of course we all know that school funding is a blend of federal, state and local taxes through various means. My point again is that if staffing is not reduced, then any scenario is not sustainable.
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faulby
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11-19-09 7:42 PM
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We can talk through all the scenarios we'd like but the bottom line (unfortunately) is always going to be $$. Four schools = taxes going up. Two schools = taxes going up. Face it, we're losing people to what people view as greener pastures. The only viable option as I see it is to reduce staff. I know of no corporation that when it consolidated that jobs weren't lost due to duplication of services, it's just a fact. When I see the current DeJong study which shows a net job loss of 11 when we're currently hiring 6 really means a net job loss of 5. Here's a fair question, if we currently have 2 principals and two assistant principals in each of the four schools (total 8) do we then have four with a two school configuration? What's the DeJong study say?
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mare1276
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11-19-09 7:34 PM
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I guess with keeping Beaty in mind.... Maybe leave WAHS alone for 10 more years and then maybe Beaty could be split between the new grade school and the WAHS building and abandon Beaty. Too bad they did not build the grade school bigger to accomodate the K and 1st grades.
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Publius
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11-19-09 7:17 PM
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Beaty is an albatross. More than 80 years old and grossly inefficient. Yes, the staff does a great job with what they have to work with, but they can't work miracles.
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mare1276
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11-19-09 7:12 PM
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Is there really a lot of work that needs done at Beaty, Years ago I was told the employees at Beaty had "pride". I know it was kept clean and they did replace the roof. Electrical is probably a problem for technology but is there more?
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fivealive
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11-19-09 7:05 PM
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Personally, I favor Option A w/ consolidation. Like Faulby is pointing out, use the existing buildings. YHS is already there, can be renovated/upgraded with tech for much less money than building a new school. WAHS is already there and large enough. Don't waste money we don't have on a new building. I actually wish there were a way to move the Beatty kids to another existing school instead of renovating it. Maybe some to Russell K-8 and some to Sheffield K-8?
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