Group contends it’s concerned about all four HSs, not just Ike
By BRIAN FERRY bferry@timesobserver.comHow many high schools?
It's not too hard to figure out where one Warren County group stands on that question.
The 4 Schools 4 Warren County group has put its message out to the public at the Warren 4th of July Parade, on the Internet, and will have space at the Warren County Fair.
The Warren County School District Board of Directors recently requested a study on the specifications for the district with two high schools, rather than the existing four.
That was not a very popular decision with 4Schools.
The group is working to find ways to prevent the closure of any more high schools in the district.
"We're just interested in what's best for students," Linda Carlson said. "I'm not quite sure if that's what the school board has in mind."
Finding people who would keep in mind the best interests of the students and who are interested in running for school board as independents or in write-in campaigns is a goal of the group.
"We are looking for people who would like to run for school board," Linda Carlson said.
Although the group is working toward keeping the status quo in terms of the district's high schools, members have discussed options should the district opt to close one.
One option would be following the lead of Tidioute and creating a charter school.
"We've talked about it," Carlson said. "That would be a possibility. Tidioute is doing so well."
"We're looking into all options at this moment," she said.
The group meets in Lander, but that shouldn't discourage people who have more direct interest in other schools, Carlson said.
"A lot of people think we're just interested in Eisenhower High School; that's not true," she said. "We're interested in all the schools in Warren County. Even if it's not their school that's going to close, it will affect their child's education."
The group cites increased class sizes and longer travel times as some of the main educational problems with consolidating schools, with some expressing concerns about possible increases in discipline problems at larger schools.
Some members of the group are also concerned about the impact the loss of a school would have on a community.
"The apathy has got to stop," she said. "People think they can't beat city hall, so why fight."
"That's not true," Carlson said. "I want people in Warren County to wake up and stand up for what they believe in."
Carlson does not have a title within the organization and couldn't give contact information for officers of the group. "It's just a group of interested citizens," she said. "Nobody's actually in charge. Everybody does their part."
The organization meets at 6:30 p.m. every Tuesday at the Lander United Methodist Church. Information about the group will be distributed at the pig roast in Lander on Saturday and at the Warren County Fair.
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samibigelow
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08-01-09 7:07 PM
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To the Right, there will be no direct route to school, unless you think all of the kids will be in one spot to be picked up each day. The buses will have to travel on the backroads to pick up kids and take them, or maybe you have never ridden on a school bus. I did when I was a kid and we lived about 5 miles out of town, but it took us about 45 minutes to get home each day. There is no straight line on a school bus route.
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hammer
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08-01-09 9:00 AM
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Worry about pools? Your kidding me. Property taxes should be your first concern!
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Morrison
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07-31-09 9:06 PM
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Pools, tracks for a few hundred thousand....are we talking education, or jocking for Daddy?
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samibigelow
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07-31-09 7:17 PM
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Arguing about a pool is dumb, you should be arguing about the quality of education. Students having to travel an hour one way to school are not going to be any better than they are now. If they can get proper training and education in their present schools that is the crux of the problem. If they are not prepared for college and its work load, then the school fails in my eyes. A pool or not is not eh answer. If they have to use the community pool in Youngsville or the Y's pool, then they have to do that. but book work and excellent teaching are most important to success. To combine the schools is not the smart thing to do. Work on the curriculum and combine purchasing power of the schools and share in other needs to keep costs down, can we all just play well together?
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writer10
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07-31-09 6:55 PM
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By consolidating the schools you also consolidate any future projects. Such as the swimming pool, instead of four schools fighting over one pool you could bring that down to 2 schools who want a pool. Makes a big difference in available funds and being able to keep each school equal. Another example would be with less schools maybe now the district could afford to place a tv station in the school for students to learn. By having 4 schools and trying to keep them equal we are actually harming the learning environment. These 4 school people have yet to put in a decent argument on why we need four schools. There biggest argument is the school won't be right next door.
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hammer
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07-31-09 5:40 PM
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The problem with Warren County & Chautauqua County is that they both have declining populations. They are great places to retired to. The job market does not entice young familys to move to this area. Once students graduate, go to college they have to leave this area because there are no jobs. I know because all four of my children are in other areas. But all four want to retire in this area someday. The tax payers can not support 4 high schools.I also feel that there are to many supervisory positions in the system. Two and quite posibllity one high schools are the only answer.
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brianhagberg
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07-31-09 1:05 PM
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danyay What would your solution be? Clearly the current system is not working.
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aslan7
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07-31-09 12:44 PM
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Many positions which aren't needed in the first place if people would step up and do their work in an efficient manner. Two recent items off the top of my head are.. Why is the district hiring yet another administrator at $40,ooo + benefits to do PIMs reporting? Why aren't the principals of the schools being given that duty with someone at central office overseeing it? And why are we paying over $20,000 to have smart boards and projectors installed in the buildings? Do we really not have ONE maintenance person employed in the district that can hang a board on the wall and suspend a projector from the ceiling? You could probably cut that number by 2/3 even with overtime. Waste and inefficiency is the problem, not the number of schools.
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danyay
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07-31-09 11:40 AM
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brian, you're absolutely right, Chautauqua is still not Warren but the analogy is still closer. And regardless of the analogy, your plan duplicates multiple times the payrolls of many, many positions.
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DaveCB
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07-31-09 10:33 AM
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aslan, I agree geography is an issue, and people will complain. If there is one school (expecting it's a new school) it would be in a new location, meaning a commute change for everyone. Also, this is a rural area, you can't expect a HS 5 minutes from your house, there are just not enough students. It's like shopping, everyone can't expect to have Wal_mart 5 minutes from their house.
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brianhagberg
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07-31-09 10:17 AM
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danyay Can't the same be said about Chataqua County, just because it's closer doesn't mean it's the same.
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brianhagberg
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07-31-09 10:16 AM
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Now instead of being able to practice after school like many other teams, members of the WAHS team must go to the YMCA very early in the morning and deal with the conditions of the Y pool...not that I have anything against the Y, but it became a situation where the "Warren gets everything while everyone else gets nothing" argument reared its ugly head. I'm just saying there needs to be something done to effect a change whereby pointless bickering such as that doesn't continue.
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danyay
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07-31-09 10:11 AM
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brian, You are absolutely right. But how much of those improvements would even be able to be considered when you double, triple, or quadruple the payroll costs of administration and other staff as you duplicate roles in districts? Or do you raise taxes to compensate? There's no easy answer, really. Also, Allegheny and Butler counties are very different from Warren, and what works for them might be very different than what works here.
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brianhagberg
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07-31-09 9:55 AM
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danyay Check out some of the things going on in our own state (e.g. Butler County, many in Allegheny County) they seem to have things figured out and it certainly isn't one district for the entire county, also look at what's happened right here over the last 40+ years. There is so much infighting among people in different areas that nothing gets accomplished. The big problem here is that the board can't approve any kind of upgrade or funding to one school without having a backlash from the other ones about how they should get money/upgrades as well. A perfect example sits above the entrance to the WAHS auditorium. While that artwork looks nice, kinda, the money that was used to purchase those pieces was orginally intended to be used to put in a pool at WAHS for the swim team. Because the people of the otehr schools in the district put up such a fuss about Warren getting a pool and not any of the other schools (even though none of them have a swim team) the pool was scrapped.
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aslan7
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07-31-09 9:46 AM
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But don't you see Dave geography makes it an issue for the affected students and families right now. Consolidation isn't an issue as long as it doesn't effect you. Once it does than all of a sudden it would a big problem and then oh the wails and cries of injustice from the residents of Warren would be heard.
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DaveCB
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07-31-09 9:43 AM
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aslan, One school may be the answer, but I think geography would make that an issue. As the number of students decreases, we don't need as many teachers or schools. While people may not like it, it's reality. I agree, the loss of residents is the underlying issue. Most Warren county graduates that go to college never return, due to the lack of jobs. That is an issue. How can companies be enticed to locate in Warren County? It's a problem being faced by many small towns right now.
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aslan7
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07-31-09 9:34 AM
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If we use your argument that enrollment is going to continue to decline then maybe all of the buildings should be closed including elementary and one super school should be erected in the center of the county for all students to attend. Because eventually even two high schools and 7 elementary schools will be too many. When will the consolidation end? It still doesn't mean education will improve. And when will we become forest county who has trouble even keeping two schools open within the county. The bigger picture is the exodus of young families from this county. And I don't see any improvement in the future.
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brianhagberg
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07-31-09 9:31 AM
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Dave, that's part of the security for the website, they remove any links so people can't put things in that shouldn't be here
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DaveCB
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07-31-09 9:23 AM
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Hey, it censored my link. Go to the wcsdpa - dot - org website and look at the enrollment figures.
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danyay
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07-31-09 9:21 AM
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brian, Check out the debate in Chautauqua County, where the exact opposite of what you describe is happening. They are trying to combine districts - Chautauqua County has 18 (!!) separate school districts, each with their own superintendent, standards, tax levy, board, and go on down the list. The answer is NOT separate districts. That is a regression.
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DaveCB
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07-31-09 9:21 AM
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Here is data from the WCSD: ***********wcsdpa****/files/filesystem/October%201,%202008%20Enrollment.pdf It's the most recent enrollment figures. If you look at the totals over the grades, on the "Total (2008-2009)" line, we have 418 seniors and 361 in kindergarden. Following this trend, in 12 years we would have only 361 seniors (I'm extrapolating here). That's a 13.6% decrease. The schools are under-capacity now, and it's not going to get any better. A little history. In 1999-2000 there were 6,817 students in the school district, in 2008-2009 it's down to 5,221. 23% less kids. As the number of students is decreasing, so should the number of schools.
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aslan7
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07-31-09 9:14 AM
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What you are bringing up is more of an inherent problem with the educational program itself. I guess that is one of the bigger questions here. Did the education of the high school students improve when we went from 5 high schools to four or did we just move kids to a different building for the same results? And will we be doing the same thing when it goes from 4 to 2?
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DaveCB
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07-31-09 9:12 AM
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They are fighting the inevitable. The number of residents and students in Warren county is decreasing. Consolidation is the logical answer. We have schools below capacity, and this situation only gets worse every year. If you want the student to have more opportunities and be better prepared for college, they need to be in bigger schools, not smaller ones.
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brianhagberg
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07-31-09 8:58 AM
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So then shouldn't the focus be to petition the state legislature? Clearly keeping things as they are is not the answer. The quality of education across the district continues to decline. Our students come to college campuses severely lacking in many areas and without the opportunity to gain exposure to field experience. For example, I attended EUP for broadcast journalism. When I got there I found that many students had already had experience with radio and TV, as well as having written for a school newspaper that is published on a daily, weekly, or monthly basis (when I attended WAHS I think we got a "newspaper" once before Christmas and once at the end of the year). It is these kinds of things that put students from the WCSD at a disadvantage when their grade school days come to an end. At some point the status quo needs to change if we are really going to focus on the best interests of our students and their future.
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Morrison
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07-31-09 8:44 AM
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Just curious. If they all went to charter schools, wouldn't it be chraper with less staff requirement at district level, and less hassel because of less power outside the community? Each community would have to maintain their buildings, of course.
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