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Class ranking

August 7, 2013

Dear editor: I will be quite blunt here; it is imperative that the Warren County School District keep its class ranking system, for the sake of the students....

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Backwoods

Aug-07-13 7:20 AM

I believe the board is “incompetent” in more ways than addressing a class rating system.

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Lifelongresident

Aug-07-13 7:54 AM

Was he insulting or stating a fact, I'd say the later.

However I disagree with him.

If we were to use a Latin honor system, I assume certain grade point averages would be outlined for each honor.

So for kicks let's say it's laid out like this:

3.50 - 3.64 ****laude 3.65 - 3.79 magna****laude 3.80 - 4.00 summa****laude

Now lets say out of the 25 seniors at Sheffield (made up number) the highest GPA is 3.60 and the next ranked kid is 3.40.

Now lets say there are 15 students at Warren high that have GPA over 3.65.

Why should a kid with a 3.40 get more recognition than a kid with a higher GPA?

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25or624

Aug-07-13 8:45 AM

WAIT A MINUTE! High achieving students in a class of 500?! Shut the front door! How is this possible? Isn't one of the arguments for our expensive collection of little high schools that big high schools are venues for failure? Looks like we're shooting holes in all kinds of fractured logic this morning. But, of course, how stupid of me. That would mean that a fairly small percentage of kids made the football team. And THAT makes all the difference.

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Brazil

Aug-07-13 9:30 AM

For the most part a passionate and well thought out letter. It is interesting to note though that the trend of many of the most selective colleges is to move away from class rank as major determiner of admission decision making. It is also interesting to note that many high quality high schools are moving away from it as well. I think a point can also be made as to how much validity can be put into class rank with the rampant grade inflation that exists today. The honor roll and merit honor roll lists today have twice as many students then 20 years ago even though there are half as many students. One wonders how much of a real "honor" it is anymore when the students not making it are outnumbered by the students who do. We keep hearing about how our students are falling behind compared to many others in the world but you wouldn't know it by how many who are "honored" every marking period.

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graduate

Aug-07-13 9:34 AM

If we are going to insist on 4 high schools, then we should have 4 valedictorians, etc. If you want to compare the kids in each school and judge them next to each other, then consolidate the schools and have 1 valedictorian. I myself am for consolidation simply for the improved educational benefits it would bring. However, if a student at SHS,YHS,EHS, or WAHS has earned the highest ranking in his/her class, he/she deserves to be recognized for it.

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dubedit

Aug-07-13 9:35 AM

I like the Latin system. No argument, just subjective judgment.

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Brazil

Aug-07-13 9:58 AM

I don't think it's a consolidation related issue. One could say the same thing that the top gpa from Warren isn't equal to the same from West Forest, Ridgway, Kane, Otto-Eldred, Coudersport, Austin, Smethport etc. One of course could also say that Warren isn't equal to McDowell, Upper St. Clair, Bethel Park, Jamestown, or Penn Hills. Then again SAT or ACT scores are a level playing field with school size, teacher grading etc. not playing a role.

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graduate

Aug-07-13 10:33 AM

Schools, curriculum, teachers, class offerings, etc will never be equal across the board, locally or nationally. SAT and ACT scores and GPA are used in college admissions, so why shouldn't the kids that work hard and earn those top honors be recognized for their achievements (yes, valedictorian and salutatorian are significant achievements) by their own schools and fellow students, no matter the school population? What in the world is wrong with that?

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Brazil

Aug-07-13 12:08 PM

umm.... because "Schools, curriculum, teachers, class offerings, etc will never be equal across the board, locally"

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graduate

Aug-07-13 12:20 PM

Again, what is wrong with the students being recognized at their schools for their academic achievements within that school?

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Lifelongresident

Aug-07-13 12:35 PM

Sorry, I thought this was a county school district?

Just seems strange to me that a kid can have a lower GPA than another and get more scholarship opportunity within the SAME school district.

I don't care if anyone agrees with me, I think it's an injustice.

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25or624

Aug-07-13 12:46 PM

Just a thought: Isn't every student who ends their high school career at home (homeschooled) a valedictorian?

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graduate

Aug-07-13 12:50 PM

This is a county school district with 4 separate and distinct high schools. If we were consolidated, this wouldn't be an issue, would it? The kids in those 4 schools are treated differently in regards to teachers, course offerings, etc. This is ridiculous to be having an argument about rewarding and recognizing some very hard working students for their academic performance in each school. We don't lump the students together for recognition with regard to their sports accomplishments unless a co-op agreement is in place between schools. The difference is?

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Lifelongresident

Aug-07-13 12:59 PM

I agree, there should only be one school.

And then poor 3.40 student would just be another kid.

Just like the starting QB at one of the 4 schools might just be a bench warmer (and would likely quit, which seems to be common) if we had one school.

One school for this population is all that's needed.

I liked the Honor Roll discussion in this tread. How can it be we have so many extremely smart kids?

Just like we can't hurt junior's feelings by putting his name in the paper as losing pitcher anymore.

We must protect, protect, protect. stupid.

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graduate

Aug-07-13 1:07 PM

And just so everyone knows...colleges do ask for class size along with GPA, etc in their applications and consideration for scholarships. They know if the student is the valedictorian of a class of 400 or a class of 80 and they act accordingly. This whole discussion is just because the school district can't figure out how to determine GPAs for the Dual Enrollment students at St Bonaventure, etc.

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Lifelongresident

Aug-07-13 3:35 PM

Thanks Graduate, it's pretty unbelievable.

To me that indicates that the letter writer is pretty spot on about the incompetence.

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Brazil

Aug-07-13 10:08 PM

what's spot on is some folks need to get outside the bubble of our Board President's life experience. According to College Board and other sites approximately 46% of high schools provide class rank and the number is trending downward. So for folks to say this is a vital instrument required for College admission seem to be saying 54% aren't considered because they don't have the all important high school rank

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graduate

Aug-08-13 6:50 AM

All high schools provide class rank to colleges for admissions purposes -some school districts no longer advertise/celebrate it for individuals outside of college applications. I love those school districts who give valedictorian status to every student who makes highest honors status. Really? That's like giving every kid who crosses the finish line a winner's trophy. Again, I'm asking, what the heck is the big deal about rewarding and recognizing on a local level those kids who work hard and actually end up, gasp, as No. 1, 2 and 3 in their classes. If this was a sports competition, there would be loud arguments from all quarters to do just that. Why not with academics?

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Brazil

Aug-08-13 8:44 AM

If you've read my comments from the very beginning I have no problem with giving out class rank for college requirement purposes or for just I want to know purposes. Why do I come down on the side of not using it as a public honor? Someone else said it better "Schools, curriculum, teachers, class offerings, etc will never be equal across the board, locally or nationally". I'm not quite sure how one equates everyone above a 3.8 being given a certain status equal to "participation trophies". I'm not big on the athletic thing either but there is not much argument if I race five other people in the 100 yard dash and I break the ribbon as to who is more deserving of the medal.

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graduate

Aug-08-13 1:01 PM

So because no two high schools anywhere in the entire country are exactly equal in staffing, course offerings, etc., no one at all can be recognized for working hard enough throughout a 4 year high school career to be the valedictorian of his or her own school? (I made that original point about inequality in an earlier post in order to prove the point that this recognition should be school and peer based, not disprove it.) I do not see how it is so unfair to celebrate the individual accomplishments of students from these individual schools. Regards to the athletics, let me fine tune my analogy. Every high school runner in the mile race who breaks a 4:30 mile wins! Regardless of who was actually the fastest. All of those kids should be rewarded equally for finishing with such impressive times.

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Lifelongresident

Aug-08-13 2:48 PM

And let me expand on your analogy graduate.

As you stated you have to break a 4:30 mile to win. At one school we had 5 runners break the 4:30 mile mark. At another no one does. Yet we name three winners anyway at that school with no real winners.

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graduate

Aug-08-13 3:49 PM

OK, I'm done. I give up. Way to go to all of you people out to support our students for academics as much as you do for athletics. With this much support for their years of sacrifice and real effort in pursuit of academic excellence, it's no wonder so many of our students who do go on to college and other educational endeavors don't come back here to live and work as adults. And for those of you who do truly recognize the efforts of our top students, it is appreciated.

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Lifelongresident

Aug-08-13 5:05 PM

You keep trying to make this about the poor kids at the smaller schools getting recognized. That's fine.

I'm trying to stand up for the poor kids that are ACTUALLY smarter, yet don't get the recognition they deserve.

So don't try to sound like your standing up for kids and I'm not. We are just standing up for different kids.

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dragonman

Aug-09-13 8:58 AM

Is class rank even relevant anymore? Why go to Harvard and get 200 grand of debt, then go to Harvard for your masters and get even more debt. Calculus at a state school and calculus at an Ivy league school are the same. No reason to be in debt for the rest of your life. The reason people don't come back to Warren is the quality of the jobs, if you do happen to find a good job here they pay you half of what you would make in a larger area. Not because it cheaper to live here(farce) because this area is really cheap on salary and its not a priority to keep your workers happy here. Their workers have no where else to go once they are here so why pay them.

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saveourschools

Aug-09-13 10:18 AM

Wait graduate, the truth of why people don't come back is lack of jobs for college graduates and lack of a strong school district that is progressive and competitive on a national level (I'm not even going to mention global.)Instead people are hung up on the way they have always done things instead of looking at schools with higher success rates and what they are doing as a model.

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